Christmas and comedy casting connoisseur Rachel Freck on That Christmas, how she got started as a casting director and what she wants to see in auditions.
Rachel Freck is an Emmy-award-winning casting director whose work you’ll most definitely be familiar with. Her impressive list of credits includes comedy big-hitters The Office, Twenty Twelve, Green Wing, Peep Show, Howards End, Ten Percent and, more recently, Apple’s comedy series Trying and ITV’s Piglets. She’s won an Emmy for casting BBC’s miniseries, Little Dorrit, and the short animation The Boy, the Mole, the Fox and the Horse, that she cast, won both a BAFTA and an Oscar.
Rachel is also no stranger to a Christmas film, having put together the line-up for British festive favourite Nativity and Your Christmas or Mine, as well as their sequels. Her latest feature That Christmas has just been released on Netflix and we’re delighted that we got the chance to sit down with her and find out all about the casting process.
Hi Rachel! Could you please tell us a bit about yourself and how you got started in casting?
I was a trainee producer at Radio 2, and I used a BBC training scheme where you could go and learn new skills to bring back to your department. I’d just cast and produced some live performances for a series about new musical writers called In Company with Sondheim, which Stephen Sondheim presented. We recorded excerpts with the actor-singers and a band, and then Sondheim interviewed the lyricists and the composers about their pieces.
I really loved the casting bit of it. It was something that I, when I was younger, mentally did in my head. I’d watch stuff and go, “Oh, you’re really interesting,” and pull out their name and remember them. Or go, “Why are they playing that? That doesn’t feel right to me.” It was something I was just intrinsically and instinctively drawn to, but I didn’t know you could do it as an actual paid job!
On my BBC training scheme, I thought, ‘I’m going to learn all about casting’, so I went and worked with the lovely Pippa Ailion on the first cast of Disney’s The Lion King in the West End. I think it was vastly under-resourced, so she was quite grateful to have a free pair of hands from the BBC helping her out. I learned loads from Pippa. That process was long and exhausting and brilliant because it was really dipping into a massive, diverse pool of musical talent that could act and juggle and dance and move and work puppets. It tapped into communities who weren’t normally associated with traditional musical training routes in the business. So, that was a great learning ground.
After that, I went into BBC Comedy, and it was at the time the waters were beginning to shift from the more traditional sitcom with an audience and a laughter track shot in a studio to shows shot more on location without a laughter track. I worked with the brilliant John Morton, who went on to write W1A and Twenty Twelve, which became award-winning mockumentaries. His first show on television was called People Like Us, which was a spoof documentary series where the reporter, who we never saw, was doing very Nick Broomfield-esque BBC sort of interviews with key figures from different walks of life, like the managing director or the vicar or the head teacher. Every week was a different precinct of characters.
It was a real baptism of fire because there’s a massive, massive cast and very little budget, but it was one of those happy collaborations with John and Paul Schlesinger, and we’ve worked together since on all of John’s work.
So, that was where I started. And very quickly after that, The Office boys were there, also on a training scheme. I think they’d been inspired by John’s People Like Us – that mockumentary style. And they said, “We want to evolve that and go further and be even more naturalistic. We want people to feel that they’re watching real people.” So that happened fairly quickly. Although, obviously, The Office went on to be a massive success, none of us knew that would happen when we were working on it. It was a brilliant starting place for me.
A few years later I went freelance, and I was lucky enough to get lots of really fantastic comedy coming my way, courtesy of those two shows. So, I did Green Wing with Victoria Pile, who created Smack the Pony, and we’re working on Piglets for ITV now. We did Peep Show with Sam [Bain] and Jesse [Armstrong], who were brilliant even then, but recently Jesse has really hit big with the multi-award-winning Succession.
We did some stuff with Chris Morris and Annie Griffin and Debbie Isitt, who produced some really interesting innovative and improvisational comedy. But I didn’t want to just do comedy, so I somehow navigated a path sideways into drama via BBC Three’s Casanova, starring Peter O’Toole and David Tennant, so that I could try and walk a balanced career through doing a bit of both. And I’ve tried to do that ever since.
What do you think drew you to casting comedy?
When I was younger, people used to make a joke about me and say that I didn’t ‘get’ comedy. They used to say, “How do you make Rachel laugh on a Monday? Tell her a joke on a Friday.” It wasn’t that I didn’t get the joke, I just didn’t find it particularly funny, and I was waiting for it to be funnier.
I think good comedy has got a musical rhythm to it. It’s got an innate timing and rhythm, and I did a lot of music in my background and my degree. Maybe there’s something in that? I hear those comedic rhythms – it’s like a score and it can either be on or off rhythmically.
You can’t teach somebody to have innate comic timing. They either have it or they don’t. You can tweak around the edges, and you can obviously give notes about a character, but you can’t make somebody funny.
How did you first become involved in the casting for your latest project, Netflix’s That Christmas?
The lovely Richard Curtis rang me up. I’ve worked with Richard a few times. We cast Richard’s adaptation of Roald Dahl’s Esio Trot with Dustin Hoffman and Judy Dench and two Comic Relief pantomimes in lockdown. Colin Hopkins, who’s Richard’s producer, and Richard called me one day and said, “We’ve got this lovely project that we’re just embarking on. Would you like to come on board?”
This was in January 2021 when we were in deepest, darkest lockdown and we’d talked about doing an animation, which actually was a perfect thing because we were not in a situation where we could audition actors in the room, but we could ask for voice tapes and it’s something that they can do while they’re socially isolated. I thought, “Well, what’s not to like? A Richard Curtis script, a charming family animation. How lovely.”
I’d done a little bit of animation for Aardman, but just dipped my toe in the water. So, I hadn’t really been down that route before.
The film is based on Richard Curtis’ children’s books. How much did that influence you when you were looking for people to cast in the roles and audition?
To be completely honest, I didn’t read the children’s books. I didn’t even know he’d written them! He’d written three separate stories and they’d woven them together to make one film. The books are for little children, and the animation was obviously a bit more complex and rounded and trying to work on all levels so that both adults and kids could enjoy.
Really it was the script that influenced me and talking to Richard about the characters. Knowing his tone and what works with his writing, and then knowing myself who’s funny and trying to think of the best people. We were also casting The Boy, the Mole, the Fox and the Horse at the same time, so it was a real season of animation in lockdown.
I think of voice casting as the purest form of casting. When you’re thinking of a character, you’re going to listen to [an actor’s] voice reel if they’ve got one. If they haven’t, you’ve got their showreel and you have to close your eyes and think, ‘What does this voice tell me when I don’t see their face or how they are or how they hold themselves?’ What can be surprising is somebody who might represent on camera as a rather beta character can suddenly become someone much more alpha when you take away how they look and just listen to their voice.
How did you go about your search for the children who voiced characters in the film?
There are, I think, eight children in big roles in That Christmas. I worked with Sally McCleery, who’s a fantastic child casting associate with lots of experience. We’ve worked on several shows together. Sally knows exactly which stones to look under and where to dig to find the best kids and then will present me with a whole load of options and we’ll go through them together.
The writing’s quite technically tough for kids. There’s quite a lot of fast-paced, funny interjecting, overlapping dialogue. You need people that think quickly and their comedy works in that kind of a way, and also that their voice represents something of the character themselves. I was really pleased with the kids we came up with. There’s one lad in particular, Jack Wisniewski, who plays ‘Danny’. He’s a Yorkshire lad and the quality in his voice is so vulnerable, endearing, sweet and lonely.
Sometimes, you cast for the tone over experience. When I was listening with Sally through the different tapes, there were actors who were more experienced, but there was something in his vocal quality that just broke your heart. And I thought, ‘If we can get him there, if we can give him enough support’ – because he wasn’t very experienced – ‘he’ll steal the show and our hearts.’ And I think he actually does.
There’s another little actress, Bronte Smith, who plays ‘Eve’, who’s five in the story. She’s just got this gorgeous kind of young, confident, childlike, wide-eyed, unique quality in her voice. Then we surrounded those with very experienced young actresses, Sienna Sayer and Zazie Hayhurst – they’ve both done lots. One was the naughty twin and one’s the shy, anxious twin, and they have lots of fast-paced dialogue together. They did our early scratch recording. Before you do the real cast, you put a scratch together, which the animators can record and use as their early inspiration for the characters, and then you cast it properly with the names that are going to hold the film. But these two girls did scratch, and they were so good, we kept them in the film.
I love the scene when ‘Danny’ tries to pluck up the courage to go and talk to ‘Sam Beccles’, and they meet outside the shop, and they have this awkward exchange. They both love each other. They want to be boyfriend and girlfriend, but they can’t quite express themselves properly. And then he ends up falling face-first in the snow afterwards because he’s so embarrassed about being tongue-tied and declares, “I’m the feeblest human alive!” It’s a gorgeous moment.
There are so many great vocal talents in That Christmas. What was it like putting together so many amazing actors?
What’s not to like? You’ve got a Richard Curtis script, so no one’s going to say no. It’s animation, so you can work around their availability. That’s the lovely thing about animation – normally, when you’re casting for screen, you’ve got to deal with things like, are they on another job? Have they got an option on this? Are they in theatre? But with animation, you just say, “When you’ve got a free afternoon, we’ll work around you.”
We had lots of discussions about ‘Santa’ [voiced by Brian Cox]. ‘Santa’ was the last person that we cast. Because it was a Netflix animation, was ‘Santa’ going to be American? I was secretly hoping not because this is such a quintessentially British story set in a British town. Even though it’s a fictional town, it’s inspired by Southwold and Walberswick where Richard and Emma [Freud] live, have a house and their families have had a house for many decades. It’s an homage to Suffolk, really and why would the children of Suffolk be having an American Santa in their imaginations? They wouldn’t. They’d have a British Santa, wouldn’t they?
We were like, “Do we want the chocolate boxy sort of Stephen Fry-esque voice or do we want a more rugged kind of action hero?” Let’s face it – being Santa Claus and flying all over the world on Christmas Eve delivering presents is a really tiring, physically demanding job. We thought that was the way to go, which is why we chose Brian [Cox], who felt like he was a more rugged sort of action outdoorsy type, but maybe a bit tired as he’s getting on a bit! Then we gave him a lovely cantankerous reindeer in Guz [Khan] who undercut any of the Santa pomposity with his own unique style of conversation. They were really strong characters, and you knew you could have the pick of the best people.
We did our due diligence. I would present lists with maybe 20 names where we carefully selected clips, voice clips or clips from TV shows or films they’d been in that would illustrate how they could sound in this character. What was clever about the animation process is the animators and the people running that side of things would sync those little clips that I found with some early pictures of the characters. We’d all jump on Zoom, watch them and go, “Does that work?” We’d do that with the top two or three and then make a decision as a group.
It was a very collaborative process, really joyous and fascinating to go, “Oh, okay, now I see the image and I hear the voice. Maybe this person works better or leans more into that.”
Image credit: Netflix/Locksmith Animation / Brian Cox’s ‘Santa’ in ‘That Christmas’
Do you think in some ways you like voice casting more than traditional casting?
I really like to have it in the bag of tricks as well. The Boy, the Mole, the Fox and the Horse was a lovely thing to do. We heard 350 boys from Scotland who put themselves on tape to play that voice. There’s a wonderful youth theatre in Edinburgh called Strangetown Youth Theatre and Agency, run by Ruth Hollyman, who’s excellent at finding and nurturing new young talent. It was one of her boys that got the part. We went to all sorts of places, not even necessarily drama groups, just to get that tone right and the quality of ‘the boy’’s voice right.
Whereas the process of casting the adult [actors] was much more streamlined as everyone was already more familiar with their work from the get-go.
Every project has its own trials and joys. But I have to say That Christmas has been one of the most joyful things we’ve done. I think what’s lovely about it, what people don’t realise about animation is how long it takes. It can take four or five years from the point at which I come on board before it’s released. It was January 2021 when we started and we’re now in Christmas 2024. And they would’ve been working on the concept before that. There are so many complex technical processes involved in animation – I’m in awe of the director, Simon Otto, and how he held it all together over such a long period of time!
What was lovely about Locksmith, the production company that produced it, is they used to do screenings around every six months where they invited all the heads of department to watch the process of the film evolving. It was lovely, in the early stages, to see the animation when it was a line drawing with some Christmas music put behind it and one or two voices that we’d used in the scratch. Some of those early line drawings were so evocative. They’d always ask for feedback from all of us after each screening. It just made us feel very connected to the process, even though there might be 1,000 people working on this over the course of the four years, it was just a lovely collaborative process.
Richard is a delight to work with and makes everybody feel that they’re valued in the process, so that helps tremendously.
How does the casting process differ between children and adults?
With adults, you already know the body of work that they’ve done. So, you remember performances when you’re thinking about whether somebody might have the right centre of gravity for the part. With children, you’re stabbing in the dark a bit.
Working with Sally [McCleery], we go to various groups and see what they’ve got. That performance could come from anyone who might not be experienced, they might just be right as themselves. If they can harness who they are naturally in performance, then they might just be perfect for a certain role.
Often, with children, it’s a numbers game. You need to see a lot in order to find the right people. Whereas with adult actors, you’re targeting your knowledge of performances, whether it’s on-screen or theatre, film or comedy clubs or whatever, you’ve got something to draw on.
What’s the hardest part of being a casting director?
Often the hardest skill of the job is cultivating the diplomacy needed to bring the chain of people involved in the decision-making along on the journey with you. That’s the bit that nobody teaches you – how to navigate the politics of the casting process.
You might be championing an actor because you think they’re really right and there’s this whole chain of execs with vastly differing options. And we’re trying to avoid committee casting and hold onto some kind of creative integrity.
It’s hard because the people putting up the money obviously want and should have a say, and we do have to consider which actors will stand out and bring an audience. Particularly in a crowded marketplace with loads of streamers and channels, there needs to be somebody in the lineup that makes people want to watch. It’s a balance of what the part needs and what the money needs, what the network needs.
However, I’m pleased to say that there were no compromises on That Christmas. After the creatives group discussions, we cast the actors we felt were most right for the part.
That Christmas isn’t the only festive film you’ve done. What draws you to a Christmas film and are there any unique challenges that come with casting a Christmas film?
I don’t think that a Christmas film has any more unique challenges than any other film. I would say you want to be extra careful that you believe the characters, that they play the truth of the part, otherwise it ends up feeling extra cheesy! With Nativity, the reason Martin Freeman was such a brilliant choice for ‘Mr. Maddens’ is because it’s an improvised film – that’s how [writer and director] Debbie Isitt works. And Martin is a wonderful improviser. But it’s also really important that the leading character hold onto the truth of who their character is at their core, so that while the mayhem is going on around them, we believe their emotional journey. And Martin does that brilliantly.
I think that’s extra important for Christmas movies because there’s so much imagination and magic and other non-normal stuff going on, that we have to believe the heart of each character. It’s the same with Your Christmas or Mine, with both Asa [Butterfield] and Cora [Kirk], you absolutely believed the heart of who they were as characters, which then allows you some indulgence with some of the supporting players around them. The dramatic throughline of their journey is what anchors you to it.
How do you typically like performers to prepare for an audition with you?
Knowing your material is always helpful. I think if you’ve got it in your muscle memory, you can be more adaptable. I think if you’re doing a show and the writers or the producers have done existing work together, there is a body of work there so do a bit of research about their previous work, particularly in comedy as it can be so tonally specific. The likes of, say, John Morton or Richard Curtis, have very specific comedic styles and if you’ve tuned into those, that will help you in the choices you’re making with the work you’re preparing for. You can do yourself so many favours as an actor by doing your homework.
Do you judge actors based purely on the audition, or does previous work come into it?
That’s why you’ve got them in the room or you’re asking them to tape, because you’ve seen some brilliant performances of theirs. Really, what you want is for the actor to do their best because you’ve seen something that you believe in so of course that influences you.
What’s your favourite Christmas film, play or TV show?
This is going to make me sound completely ancient, but my favourite Christmas film is the original version of Miracle on 34th Street. I think it’s such a beautiful story, which encapsulates the innocence of childhood versus the cynicism of the adult world. I also like the 1994 remake that they did with Mara Wilson, Elizabeth Perkins, Dylan McDermott and the delightful Richard Attenborough playing ‘Father Christmas’ or ‘Kris Kringle’. It’s an absolutely gorgeous movie. I defy you to watch it and not to be moved.
If anybody wants to have a really nostalgic afternoon, watch the original followed by the sequel.
Do you watch most of the productions you’ve cast? And if so, do you have a favourite one?
God, that’s so unfair! Your favourite one is probably the last one you did. It’s so hard because every genre is so different. I don’t think I can answer that because I feel I’d be unfair to other projects as you hopefully love everything you’ve worked on.
I would say 75% of what I’ve worked on, I really like watching. I absolutely watch them because you want to see how your people have done. We also try and visit them on set as while they’re filming because that’s the fun bit for us. Once we’ve provided and delivered our cast, we get to go and see them in action, which is nice.
What would be your dream production to work on?
I’d love to do anything written by Aaron Sorkin, the showrunner who created West Wing. He also did The Newsroom, and he’s written several films. He has a particular tone: it’s drama, but there’s a wit within his writing and it’s really fast-paced rhythmically – a bit like John Morton’s work. I’d love to work on something of his.
And I’d love to cast another Dickens. I did Little Dorrit quite a while ago, which did very well for the BBC and for all of us. It won seven Emmys including one for casting! Dickens can be the perfect amalgamation of drama and comedy because Dickens writes such brilliantly flavoursome and unique characters, but there’s always a heart and drama to the centre of the story so it’s right up my alley. I also think he gives you a clue in their names – Steerforth, Tite Barnacle, Flintwich, Edmund Sparkler. These names call for certain characteristics. I mean, Tite Barnacle is never going to be played by Timothée Chalamet or Daniel Craig!
I think when you get to this stage in the industry, most people’s ambition is to work on good scripts with good people – so that’s my constant aim!
I’d love to do a live-action Richard [Curtis] film if he ever does another one. Richard, if you’re listening…!
How are you spending your Christmas this year?
I’d love to say I was doing something exciting, like snowboarding down the Alps, but I’ll be having a cosy Christmas with my mum in Stroud, Gloucestershire, where I grew up, with my partner and my sister.
I have a Christmas birthday in between Christmas and New Year. Generally, it’s the day that nobody wants to do anything because they’re so full of turkey and they’re getting ready for New Year. So, I should be celebrating my birthday quietly as well.
Thank you Rachel for taking the time to talk to us, and happy birthday for when the day comes!
That Christmas is available to watch in the UK on Netflix.
